Are Organics Worth The Extra Expense? Options

[Guest_lme_*]

According to experts in the industry, being able to afford organic food during a recession is a luxury. The USDA says that organic products cost 20-50 times more than conventional food. Are they worth it? I wrote an article about this issue and I would love some feedback. http://bit.ly/Organic

[William James]

This has been discussed many times, and it doesn't matter if there is a recession. Moreover, a cost benefit analysis isn't the right message to send. Something is only considered a luxury when it is a want; when it is a need then people adapt. It's not about economy but priorities and education. How can you compromise between prices and finding pesticides in children's blood, or untested GMO produce, or sick and abused livestock? These are things that shouldn't be, there isn't any in between.

This issue is only exaggerated by those not seeing that the age of convenience seems to be on its way out. Time must be made again to prepare food. Families should take this opportunity to stop buying wrapped prepared foods and start bringing their own containers to the store-- buy peanut butter, oil, sugar, flour from bulk bins. Learn to cook your own beans, make lentils, quinoa, rice. Buy a CSA share if you can afford it and one is available. Sell your TV and teach your children how to make bread. Grow a garden.

[Maggie's Org...]

This has been discussed many times, and it doesn't matter if there is a recession. Moreover, a cost benefit analysis isn't the right message to send. Something is only considered a luxury when it is a want; when it is a need then people adapt. It's not about economy but priorities and education. How can you compromise between prices and finding pesticides in children's blood, or untested GMO produce, or sick and abused livestock? These are things that shouldn't be, there isn't any in between.

This issue is only exaggerated by those not seeing that the age of convenience seems to be on its way out. Time must be made again to prepare food. Families should take this opportunity to stop buying wrapped prepared foods and start bringing their own containers to the store-- buy peanut butter, oil, sugar, flour from bulk bins. Learn to cook your own beans, make lentils, quinoa, rice. Buy a CSA share if you can afford it and one is available. Sell your TV and teach your children how to make bread. Grow a garden.

Agreed.

[tobeornottobe]

It is always interesting to me to hear people who have Gucci watches and things say, "I can't buy organic food for my kids, it's so expensive!" Obviously there is something wrong with organic's advertising! Organic is the best food in the world. Who wouldn't want to feed their kids the best food in the world? It's time to get the advertising out there on what is the best food!
Second, I am an artist. I am poor, but my dogs, and my cats and my family eat organic. I started slowly going organic (ie. no more GMO corn!) and I began to realize that the better havingness I had in what I bought, the better I felt physically and maybe there is a karma thing there, but when I made the decision each time to buy something organic, the money was always there. It is simply a decision to do the right thing for the planet and yourself. It has a karma to it, and you reap the rewards. I can't exactly explain how this works. It just works. Now I even buy recycled toilet paper, because I love the rewards that come to me for doing something good. It's a very real thing. Try it! I believe there are two ways of doing things in life. One is to make judgements and keep fighting for the right thing (we all know this is work). Two is to just do the right thing (this is the easy one, the fun one, where life becomes joy). I see a lot of people fighting who don't do the right things by the planet or themselves. By the way, I have an old dog, who had eaten conventional food for a time. She started to get arthritic, and had skin problems etc. Once I put her on organic food, she started to look better and better. No more arthritis, no more skin problems, gray hair going away, and being replaced with young looking hair. It was awesome to watch the transformation! Oh, another thing, I just dumped my cell phone because I decided that microwaving the planet isn't working for me. Until there is better technology, I'm done with it. Microwaves go everywhere...think about that. We are creating this energy grid of microwaves that we are living in. Any wonder the bees are dying? Stick with land lines.

[lindaoak]

"Something is only considered a luxury when it is a want; when it is a need then people adapt."

Bravo! Safe food is NOT a luxury, but a necessity. Anything less is courting disease, and early and painful death.

[Peeko Sanchez]

Great comments everyone!
I'd like to add that making priorities is helpful in making your dollars count when buying organic, and altering your game plan a little at a time. I can't afford to buy all organic, like meats. So, I gradually ate less meat, and bought more organic veggies, giving myself time to "vegetate" my favorite recipes and learn new ones.
Shopping by season often means sale prices on produce year round as well (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) Cooking at home, cutting way back on or eliminating processed foods, and buying local, especially now that it's farmer's market season, cuts costs even more. It just takes some time and thought, instead of eating by impulse.
I think the trouble is that there is so much out there to avoid, so many things to support, that tackling them all is debatably impossible. So pick your battles. There's tons of resources through OCA to learn what's the most pesticide ridden fruit, what's the most dangerous chemical in cosmetics, where are farmer's markets in your area... At the very least, you can avoid the worst that's out there.
And as mentioned above, making your own things can get you far as well. If anyone is interested in making their own cosmetics and toiletries, there are tons of recipes online with really simple ingredients. Lotion takes 10 minutes and a buck or two to make. I make everything but soap now and it's waaaaaaaaaaaaay cheaper! I'm glad to share what I know if anyone's interested.
Good luck to all (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[tobeornottobe]

People who eat organic food need to see the movie, "The Secret". Stop thinking about getting things cheaper, and think about getting the best, and that you deserve the best. The money for your food will materialize as you create it. This is a law of the Universe. Instead of thinking of, where can I get the cheapest tomato, think, where can I find the very best tomato? In your garden, that's where! Where can I find the best seeds? At an heirloom seed seller that fits your climate, that's where! Our economy always was, and may always be a manufactured reality. Don't buy into that thinking...we have a bad economy. That's just a manufactured idea. Move into making your own life. Have fun for goodness sake! At the core of this economy is a great deal of worry. If you are holding your wallet with a bunch of worry, you aren't having a life. It's important to imagine your life first, and what you want. Please, please, get a life and eat organic. Life is too short to eat garbage.

[Sah-Veel']

It is always interesting to me to hear people who have Gucci watches and things say, "I can't buy organic food for my kids, it's so expensive!" Obviously there is something wrong with organic's advertising! Organic is the best food in the world. Who wouldn't want to feed their kids the best food in the world? It's time to get the advertising out there on what is the best food!
Second, I am an artist. I am poor, but my dogs, and my cats and my family eat organic. I started slowly going organic (ie. no more GMO corn!) and I began to realize that the better havingness I had in what I bought, the better I felt physically and maybe there is a karma thing there, but when I made the decision each time to buy something organic, the money was always there. It is simply a decision to do the right thing for the planet and yourself. It has a karma to it, and you reap the rewards. I can't exactly explain how this works. It just works. Now I even buy recycled toilet paper, because I love the rewards that come to me for doing something good. It's a very real thing. Try it! I believe there are two ways of doing things in life. One is to make judgements and keep fighting for the right thing (we all know this is work). Two is to just do the right thing (this is the easy one, the fun one, where life becomes joy). I see a lot of people fighting who don't do the right things by the planet or themselves. By the way, I have an old dog, who had eaten conventional food for a time. She started to get arthritic, and had skin problems etc. Once I put her on organic food, she started to look better and better. No more arthritis, no more skin problems, gray hair going away, and being replaced with young looking hair. It was awesome to watch the transformation! Oh, another thing, I just dumped my cell phone because I decided that microwaving the planet isn't working for me. Until there is better technology, I'm done with it. Microwaves go everywhere...think about that. We are creating this energy grid of microwaves that we are living in. Any wonder the bees are dying? Stick with land lines.

[AlbionWood]

And just why do organic foods cost more? In large part, it is because we taxpayers are subsidizing the production of non-organic foods. As Michael Pollan has convincingly demonstrated, "food products" are cheaper than real food, largely because the "food products" industry benefits from $billions in subsidies. This of course makes no sense!

What do you suppose would happen to prices, and eating habits, if fresh fruit and vegetable production received all the subsidies, rather than corn-wheat-soy? If the true costs of chemical fertilizer, pesticide, and herbicide production (including pollution, regulation, and warfare) were included in the cost of "conventionally" grown food? If the cost of health care for the millions of Americans sickened by their diet of refined carbohydrates were added to the cost of those "food products?"

There is no doubt about it: The prices of "conventional" foods and food products are kept artificially low, while "organic" foods and products must pay their own way. The playing field is not level and never has been. Those "experts," especially the ones at the USDA, are partly responsible for establishing and perpetuating the price disparities. We're not being given the whole story on food prices.

[sandy sanders]

Yes!

A cost benefit analysis is doable based upon a study of a whole lifestyle change. If anyone knows of a study based upon this I would love to be able distribute that documentation to others, please contact me (sandyssanders@att.net).

I began a lifestyle change in 1995 that is near completion in 2009. I lived a near typical middle class family lifestyle that came close to killing me. By 2009 I'm a car-free bike commuter; buy organic, pesticide free and local, almost exclusively; stopped smoking, sew old clothes, turning them into art along the way; repair rather than buy new if it's not non-toxic; DIY everything. sharing bin, thrift store; make art with reused/trashed materials; boycott all coprorate goods and services possible; etc., and make sure I get 8hrs sleep/day; 8hrs sweat exercise/wk; plenty of water and avoid processed foods. This total change has shifted the same pie chart of income and expenses to different allocations where food & related supplies cost twice as much but all the other costs have reduced more than that. The end result is, as I continue to exclude the consumer culture/rat race crap, my overall costs go down, my health and sanity go up, my social life is better and eventhough food costs 2x more I am way better off.

If we could get a documentation of this from a large group of people and then get people to understand this paradigm shift is actually CHEAPER and HIGHER QUALITY LIFE, we have good information for people on the sidelines to join in.

Any thoughts?

[lindaoak]

Back in the early 70s, I developed an intolerance to canned vegetables, having nausea and pain after consuming canned beets, hominy, green beans, etc. I also got ill when baking, from the odors coming from the oven. I swore I smelled chlorine, but was pretty much considered crazy by my friends and relatives. Beef constipated me. Ice cream made me bloat. Hot dogs gave me the runs. You name it. White sugar gave me a “head cold.” Food became my enemy. Well, I had to eat, so off I trotted to the health food store. This is where I discovered “Consumer Beware,” by B.T. Hunter. This book changed my life. It’s not an easy read, but it tells all about commercial food processing.

Finding whole wheat flour in those days was an adventure. Just one mill in Texas shipped it. I was very fortunate to live in the San Francisco Bay Area where health food stores abounded. I’ve fallen off the wagon many times over the years, and each time my health suffered, but I’m much older now and much smarter.

I only drink raw milk and get eggs from chickens I’ve met on a farm. Grass fed beef without hormones or antibiotics I can eat, but I must never, never give in and go to the golden arches.

I have raised garden beds next to our mobile home in a trailer park, growing tomatoes, beans, peas, cucumbers, corn, strawberries, chard and lambs quarters, a prolific edible weed that’s better than spinach.

I use recycled toilet paper because the commercial variety has chlorine added, and causes rashes for me. I am hypersenstive to all chemicals and all fragrances. Boy, do they make me sick. I avoid buses like the plague. I duck and dodge people who “look” like they’re wearing perfume, and sometimes must evacuate a grocery store for that reason. Most grocery stores sell WAY TOO MANY perfumed products, but that’s another story.

Organic food is the only way for me. And the Organic Consumers Association is our bulwark out there against corporate agriculture and chemical poisons. I will stay in the trenches and keep signing petitions and emailing Congress.

And buying organic.

They are big, and strong, but we are many.

[tobeornottobe]

Thank you all for your responses, and stories. Reality strikes when you look at the big picture. You can't buy from the man, and expect not to pay the man. By that, I mean, if you are buying GMO food, you will pay. In other words, if you aren't ready to buy genetic medicine to fix your genetic problem created by your genetic food, you shouldn't be buying genetic food. Genetic food has no longitudinal studies. That means you are the experiment. If that isn't clear to you, you need to get clear, because your life depends on it. It is a time to be wary of food and goods because people aren't taking responsibility for what they are putting out. Have you read, "Altering Eden, the Feminization of Nature?" Great book. There's a case in point for how we have let things slip by. It's really easy to slip into using plastics, medicine, food, cars, and what not. But, there have always been good options to take and bad ones. When you take the bad ones, and you take it over and over, pretty soon that manufacturer is rich, and you now have to deal with the mess created by the bad company. Don't give money to bad companies. That's number one. Bad companies don't like to be responsible. It goes with the territory. Get the territory you are in. It's called lack of responsibility. If you are dating someone, and that person is always irresponsible, do you go, oh good, now let me give you all my money, and move you totally into my life. What is this person doing? This person is just setting him or her self up for being a victim! That's the kind of thing you are doing when you start giving money to bad companies and welcoming them into your life. You are the consumer. You have the power! Take the power! Do the right thing!

[fedrar]

Organic food is one of the fastest-growing categories in the food industry, despite the fact that it can cost more than double the price of conventional foods.

Organic items worth buying as often as possible: Baby food, bell peppers, Apples, Eggs, Nectarines, Potatoes, red raspberries and more

Organic items worth buying if money is no object: Avocados, bananas, Asparagus, cereals, oils, potato chips and sweet peas. Also included are packaged products such as canned vegetables and dried fruit.

So, I think that they are just worth that extra expense to get a better diet.

[mrbingbang]

And just why do organic foods cost more? In large part, it is because we taxpayers are subsidizing the production of non-organic foods. As Michael Pollan has convincingly demonstrated, "food products" are cheaper than real food, largely because the "food products" industry benefits from $billions in subsidies. This of course makes no sense!

What do you suppose would happen to prices, and eating habits, if fresh fruit and vegetable production received all the subsidies, rather than corn-wheat-soy? If the true costs of chemical fertilizer, pesticide, and herbicide production (including pollution, regulation, and warfare) were included in the cost of "conventionally" grown food? If the cost of health care for the millions of Americans sickened by their diet of refined carbohydrates were added to the cost of those "food products?"

There is no doubt about it: The prices of "conventional" foods and food products are kept artificially low, while "organic" foods and products must pay their own way. The playing field is not level and never has been. Those "experts," especially the ones at the USDA, are partly responsible for establishing and perpetuating the price disparities. We're not being given the whole story on food prices.

Bravo! Why can't this simple concept be recognized in our National dialog? Every time this issue comes up, you and I need to point this out in the loudest possible manner!! WHAT IS THE TRUE COST in the end? We invaded Iraq for the petroleum that makes those conventional fertilizers, herbicides, and pesticides! Farm subsidies, GMO's, all that toxic crap... When people question my support of organic food, I tell them that even if all else was the same, I support working with the air, water, and soil in a sustainable way. It is VERY difficult for me to purchase conventional knowing that I am soiling my own nest! It's about the Planet, stupid!

[GreenFoodservice...]

In response to the concept that organic costs more I would have to disagree.

People are first not taking everything into consideration when it comes to the food they purchase. For years I have done without the new car or fancy clothes (would buy at thrift stores instead) to make sure that my body had the best food.

We all make choices on how to spend our money, and you get what you pay for. I would rather spend a little more and get twice the nutrition, no pesticides and GMOs, and probably fresher.

It is all releavant as there are how many conventional and natural products in the store you cannot afford either. You may not be able to get away from the cost of the organic milk, but I find many organic items at the 99 cent store and stock up when I do. I have found canned beans and tomatoes (big find as heavy on the methyl bromide and GMOs), soups, juices, energy drink, cookies, mac and cheese, fresh veggies and frozen too. Frozen vegetables, just got Ben & Jerry's ice cream ORGANIC for 99c last week, and cases of Honest tea for 59 cents. Get cherry tomatoes, lots of lettuce, celery, and more.

I buy what is on sale at the store, and shop farmers markets. Now you can get 50%-60% discounts, free shipping at one case minimum at www.greenfoodservices.com also.

The nutrients that all of these people are not getting since most conventional farmers use fertilizer with less than 20 nutrients where organic can use fertilizers with over 100 nutrients, together with not getting Omega 3s because of how they feed dairy and cattle, good chance you are feeling the effects which can be depression, and loss of brain function. Then you have dull skin and hair to go with.

It is my belief than even a diet of 33% organic or less is better than a 100% non organic diet. Every convention/natural food product that can be replaced with organic moves us closer to the having to fight this fight.

Elaine McFadden, MPH, RD
President
GreenFoodservices.com
(IMG:http://www.greenfoodservices.com/Images/grn_categories/1GFSlogoxsm.jpg)

[OhZone]

It is NOT always worth it.
I am sensitive to much that is on the market and each new purchase is an experiment. I spend 6 out opf 7 days a week groggy and achey because the food is so contaminated with one thing or another.

You might say I am the equivalent of the Canary in the Coal Mine.
Just because you do not have a dramatic reaction doesn't mean the stuff isn't poison.

This past week I bought Nature's Place Green Beans...$3.00
and Earthbound Broccoli $2.69
Apparently they were grown in a high Glutamate ferilizer...
They both gave me a 36 hour histamine reaction.

I also bought a $2.49 bunch of regular Commercial Broccoli and it went fine...no reaction.

I still have a packge of 2 Nature's Place Zucchini that I paid $4.00 for.
I'll have to eat a half of one to see if there is a reaction.

My latest bag of Tomorrow's Organics potatoes also gave me a reaction in that they made me Very Sleepy for over 24 hours.

I can eat regualr Grapes and Cherries with no problem. I guess I can handle the pesticides but not the glutamate ferilizers.

It is a good thing that I am retired.
If I wasn't I would not be able to work. Is it even possible to get disability pention for Food Allergies? I cannot drive. I would be a hazzard on the road.

[feedastarvingwor...]

[quote name='tobeornottobe' date='Jul 1 2009, 10:28 PM' post='10696']



Care to explain how 'organic is the best food in the world.' Please correct me if I am wrong here but wasn't the spinach e. coli outbreak in 2006 from an Organic produce farm in California. Plus there is going to be a lot of starving people if all food production shifted to organic. If you choose an organic diet then that's great, but to state that is the best food in the world is unfair and more than likely untrue. Additionally, unless you are growing all of your own organic food yourself or at the very least purchasing very locally; then odds are that the organic food is no safer than the nonorganic.